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General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  riceckr on Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:25 pm

asked this earlier but must have missed it. Since looking at the new FAQ on AWI I noticed that under work search it said that it will be the same methods as EUC I and II , am I right in assuming that this one won't require the 4 job search record a week? This could be good news for us as there should be no reason to hold it up.

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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  nancym on Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:44 pm

riceckr wrote:asked this earlier but must have missed it. Since looking at the new FAQ on AWI I noticed that under work search it said that it will be the same methods as EUC I and II , am I right in assuming that this one won't require the 4 job search record a week? This could be good news for us as there should be no reason to hold it up.

Right, less programming!

And we still need to keep job search records in case of a random audit, but we won't have to report them every week and the requirements are not so specific as EB.
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  nancym on Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:59 pm

Judy wrote:

I could use some clarity on this too if anyone knows. My brother is currently on Tier I - his last payable week under Tier 1 is week ending Dec 19 with first week of eligibily for Tier II being week starting 12/20. Will he "beat the deadline"? I have been trying to call Melody and her group but keep getting voice mail.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

If I have my ducks in a row on this, Judy, yes, he has "beat the deadline." However, unless Congress extends the cutoff dates for payable weeks, his benefits will not go the whole almost 8 months, but would be cut off after June 6, 2010.

Let's hope he can find a job by that time and doesn't have to wait for Congress on that one!
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  nancym on Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:52 am

bittybear wrote:New here. ... it gets tiring when state agencies post incorrect information. I wonder if posting inaccuracies is better than not posting anything at all? ...

This information posted on AWI's website in not correct:

"What is the amount of Emergency Unemployment Compensation benefits I will be paid?
The weekly benefit amount will be the same as the amount of the newest eligible regular UC claim. The total benefits will be equal to the lesser of 50% of the original available credits of the regular claim or 13 weeks. If you exhaust EUC Tier III by December 27, 2009, eligibility can be established under EUC Tier IV. EUC Tier IV will provide the lesser of 24% of the available credits of the regular UC claim or up to 6 weeks."

The new legislation is for those who have exhausted their REGULAR benefits by December 27, 2009, not their EMERGENCY benefits (ie. Tier II or Tier III). This is why this is so frustrating.

Under section 4007 of the abovementioned act, entitled "Applicability", Part (b)(2):

"LIMIT ON COMPENSATION - No compensation shall be payable by reasojn of paragraph (1) for any week beginning after June 30, 2009."

This date was changed (notice I didn't use the misleading term "extended") by the ARRA (H.R.1 of the 111th congress) to May 31, 2010.

So my understanding is that if you've exhausted your REGULAR benefits before December 27, 2009, you will be eligible for ALL of the Tiers, but not for any weeks after May 31, 2010.

There's also language stating that if the Tier amount has been added to your account before the deadline, it will continue to pay out, but not after May 31, 2010. This is the next mountain to climb for our illustrious congress, so that the newly laid off will be entitled to Emergecy Benefits, if and only if the unemployment rate does not start to come down quickly.


bittybear--

I replied to your later comment below in detail before I saw your earlier comment on the other thread (which I moved here). From this one it sounds like you've done your homework and then some on these bills! Very Happy

Technically, AWI's posts this time are accurate, and I'm hardly one who defends AWI here, it's just that their communication skills leave a little room for improvement!

When they post that if you run out of Tier 3 before the end of December that you can go on to Tier 4, that seems more like an "incidentally" comment, though many might read it to mean that you have to finish Tier 3 by that date, which is actually unlikely and unnecessary, as you correctly point out. Many people in Florida don't get the maximum weeks available, so I think they were addressing that scenario, while confusing everybody else.

But you are essentially correct, eligibility for the Tiers needs to be established before the December cutoff date (and eligibility comes with exhaustion of regular benefits of course). And eligibility for the first Tier, if my own understanding is correct, essentially opens the "gate" to all the other Tiers, limited by the cutoff date for funding that may be adjusted later on by Congress.
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AWI's FAQs

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 1:28 am

nancym wrote:Having posted all that above, I have to say the AWI FAQ that is now posted is actually pretty clear about a lot of this:
http://www.floridajobs.org/unemployment/EUC_09/index.html

(scroll down to bottom of that page)

But this statement is not correct:

"What is the amount of Emergency Unemployment Compensation benefits I will be paid?
The weekly benefit amount will be the same as the amount of the newest eligible regular UC claim. The total benefits will be equal to the lesser of 50% of the original available credits of the regular claim or 13 weeks. If you exhaust EUC Tier III by December 27, 2009, eligibility can be established under EUC Tier IV. EUC Tier IV will provide the lesser of 24% of the available credits of the regular UC claim or up to 6 weeks."

If the first week payable for Tier III is November 7 or 14, there's no way anybody could exhaust 13 weeks of benefits prior to December 27, 2009 to qualify for Tier IV...

This is important, because my husband's Tier II doesn't expire until January 9 (and someone else posted theirs expires January 2). They are leading people to believe that you must exhaust your Tier II benefits prior to December 27, not your regular benefits. That would mean only people who are completely out of benefits, or will be shortly, would qualify. The fact remains that the new legislation did not change the end date of June, 2010.

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??????

Post  tj21121008 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:12 am

bittybear
does that mean no one gets tier 4 the 6 week???????????
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:37 am

tj21121008 wrote:bittybear
does that mean no one gets tier 4 the 6 week???????????

I'm finally understanding what nancym is saying. If you had a less than maximum original amount in your regular benefits (say $101/wk for 7 wks like mine was), and you ran out before December 27, 2009, then you could go on and collect Tier IV. But that's not how it reads, to most people anyway.

Yes, if you have exhausted your REGULAR benefits by December 27 (and you have exhausted them if you received any of the emergency tiers), then you will get Tier III, and an extra week of Tier II - payable either before or after Tier III for the purposes of "state coordination" (their convenience regarding programming and administration of the program). When you exhaust the Tier III, you will qualify for Tier IV if the state is still in an "extended benefit period". There's no way Florida's rate will drop below the threshold in 13 weeks (or earlier, if you don't receive the maximum benefit).

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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:46 am

[quote="nancym

Please refer to the post I made earlier from NELP: http://www.unemployedworkers.org/sites/unemployedworkers/index.php/benefits

Note especially the third paragraph.

It states:

"You should also know that as long as you qualify to receive these last tiers of benefits before Dec. 26, 2009, you will be able to collect the full amount of them, even into 2010. While the entire EUC program has not yet been extended into 2010, you will be "grandfathered" into this last tier of benefits and will receive them in full, so the promise of 14-20 more weeks of benefits is not an illusory one."

This, too, is confusing because they don't specify how you qualify to receive these last tiers of benefits, and they quote the December deadline. Hopefully, we'll get more clarification later today, as they really are the best place for information. I guess it's difficult to be clear and concise in a short timeframe on a Friday afternoon... At least they're trying to help.

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??

Post  tj21121008 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:07 am

i read that at nelp and thats what i thaught that to , but awi dosnt explain it like that it seems....thanks for wrighting back .. Sleep
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  nancym on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:31 am

bittybear wrote:

...Yes, if you have exhausted your REGULAR benefits by December 27 (and you have exhausted them if you received any of the emergency tiers), then you will get Tier III, and an extra week of Tier II - payable either before or after Tier III for the purposes of "state coordination" ...When you exhaust the Tier III, you will qualify for Tier IV if the state is still in an "extended benefit period"...

Exactly. You had it right in your first post, I'm sorry if I confused the issue in my responses to your later post. The only reason NELP mentions the December deadline is because of all the later unemployed who will not exhaust regular benefits before that date; anyone who runs out of regular and thus qualifies for Tier 1 gets the whole kit and kaboodle because of the "domino-like" way the laws are written. Those who don't qualify in time need to have Congress extend those dates. NELP's position is to advocate for any worker left out in the cold. But anyone who has used up EUC2 is already qualified.

The example AWI gave is as you say, just an example of someone who might exhaust Tier 3 early; why they chose to word it that way beats me. It's correct, but can be misleading. But some might be surprised at the number of people who do not get the max number of dollars or weeks in benefits.

Here's the shorthand version (this assume no complications like less than max wages, working in between or whatever):

Exhausting regular benefits qualifies you for Tier 1 (must be before December deadline)
Exhausting Tier 1 qualifies you for Tier 2 (no deadline to qualify)
Exhausting Tier 2 qualifies you for Tier 3 (no deadline to qualify, but state must be at or above 6.0% TUR)
Exhausting Tier 3 qualifies you for Tier 4 (no deadline to qualify, but state must be at or above 8.5% TUR)

Whichever Tier you're in by June 6, 2010, will be cut off unless Congress acts to extend that cutoff.


Last edited by nancym on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:56 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added color "chart")
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to nancy

Post  tj21121008 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:29 pm

where did you see that article? because the only dumb articles i have been seeing are these!
Few, if any, unemployed people will be able to get the full 20-week extension in jobless benefits because Congress delayed so long and failed to change a sunset provision, says a California Employment Development Department official.

As a result, most Californians — an estimated 285,000 long-term unemployed — will be able to qualify for only an additional 14 weeks of benefits, says Loree Levy, an EDD spokeswoman.

The legislation, which was approved by the House today, provides 14 weeks of additional benefits to all states. Those states with a jobless rate over 8.5% — California's is 12.2% — get up to 20 more weeks.

But instead of simply tacking on the additional weeks in one new extension, the bill sets up a Byzantine plan that adds two new extensions to the two previous ones before the last extension, referred to as FedEd, kicks in.

Congress previously extended FedEd from 13 weeks to 20 weeks, but included a sunset provision for the end of the year. If Congress doesn't change that provision, FedEd will revert to 13 weeks on Jan. 1.

So even if a person could start collecting on the latest extension today, the calendar will run out before that person can get all 20 weeks of benefits. As currently written, they will get one additional week for the second extension and, because their unemployment will carry into next year, 13 weeks of FedEd, for a maximum of 14 weeks.
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getting it wrong

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:52 pm

tj21121008 wrote:where did you see that article? because the only dumb articles i have been seeing are these!

So even if a person could start collecting on the latest extension today, the calendar will run out before that person can get all 20 weeks of benefits. As currently written, they will get one additional week for the second extension and, because their unemployment will carry into next year, 13 weeks of FedEd, for a maximum of 14 weeks.


This is the crux of the problem. The press gets it wrong, because their source at the state agency gets it wrong...

If you lived thru all of the other extensions, you'll know what I'm talking about. I, too, had the experience of speaking to someone at AWI that didn't have a clue... And I had to wait for a week for them to call me back without a clue!

It's because the changes to the original emergency benefits program have taken place in more than one piece of legislation. The date for "sunset" or phase-out of applicability was originally laid out in H.R. 6867 of 2008's congress. The date was changed in H.R. 1 (ARRA) of 2009's congress (Obama's first action). The later changes have not changed any of the dates for expiration.

The next piece of the puzzle is to change the date again, so that the newer unemployed will qualify for benefits past the "regular" 26 weeks. This is a perfect example of the fact that sometimes it's better to have to wait over the weekend for information, rather than getting a partial understanding late on a Friday afternoon.

The things to keep in mind:

- The unemployement rate is a lagging indicator and won't come down significantly anytime soon.

- 2010 is an election year (for congress). And anyone who wants to get re-elected will not vote against assistance for the average joe who works and pays taxes that keeps this all up and running.

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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  Judy on Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:55 pm

nancym wrote:
Judy wrote:

I could use some clarity on this too if anyone knows. My brother is currently on Tier I - his last payable week under Tier 1 is week ending Dec 19 with first week of eligibily for Tier II being week starting 12/20. Will he "beat the deadline"? I have been trying to call Melody and her group but keep getting voice mail.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

If I have my ducks in a row on this, Judy, yes, he has "beat the deadline." However, unless Congress extends the cutoff dates for payable weeks, his benefits will not go the whole almost 8 months, but would be cut off after June 6, 2010.

Let's hope he can find a job by that time and doesn't have to wait for Congress on that one!

Thanks so much, he will be estatic bounce and you have saved me hours on the phone ( he is never collected before so isn't even sure what questions to ask so I call for him Laughing He didn't qualify for full 26 weeks (just like I didn't) so will have exhausted all Tiers before June 2010. Maybe, if it is still necessary and probably will be, Congress will come up with another Tier before that.

Thanks again,

Judy

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Okay, I'm back to being confused

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:35 pm

tj21121008 wrote:where did you see that article? because the only dumb articles i have been seeing are these!


Congress previously extended FedEd from 13 weeks to 20 weeks, but included a sunset provision for the end of the year. If Congress doesn't change that provision, FedEd will revert to 13 weeks on Jan. 1.

So even if a person could start collecting on the latest extension today, the calendar will run out before that person can get all 20 weeks of benefits. As currently written, they will get one additional week for the second extension and, because their unemployment will carry into next year, 13 weeks of FedEd, for a maximum of 14 weeks.

This is so maddening!

110th congress H.R. 6867, Section 4, Phaseout provisions

"Section 4007 (b) of the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2008 (26U.S.C. 3304 note) is amended--

(1) in paragraph (1), by striking "paragraph (2)', and inserting 'paragraphs (2) and (3)'; and

(2) by striking paragraph (2) and inserting the following:

'(2) NO AUGMENTATION AFTER MARCH 31, 2009- If the amount established in an individual's account under subsection (b((1) is exhausted after March 31. 2009, then section 4002(c) shall not apply and such account shall not be augmented under such section., regardless of whether such individual's State is in an extended benefits period (as determined under paragraph (2) of such section)."

This was changed in H.R. 1 of the 111th congress, by changning the March 31,2009 to December 31, 2009 (for cutoff on "augmentation") and August 27, 2009 to May 31, 2010.

The just passed legislation (H.R. 3548), under Section 3, Third-Tier Emergency Unemployment Compensation states the preceeding "amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:"

....

"(b) Conforming Amendment to Non-augumentation Rule- Section 4007(b)(2) of the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2008 (Public Law 110-252; 26 U.S.C. 3304 note) is amended--"

striking and adding to included the third tier.

BUT THEY DID NOT CHANGE THE DATE!!! Which means (?) that these press reportings are correct? Is it possible that they did all of this, and even covered those who did not get the maximum benefits and might go thru Tier III before December only so that no one would run out of benefits before Christmas??? Is that really possible?

AAARRRRGGGGGG

nancym, please, please, please clarify.

I checked NELP and unemployedworkers.org sites, plus AWI and couldn't find any clarifications.

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The December Deadline

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:37 pm

Okay, so I guess the question of the day is:

Are those who will still be drawing down their current Tier AFTER the deadline going to be prevented from having further "augmentation" to their accounts?

There''s one poster here who will miss it by days... My husband's Tier II runs through January 9. I can't believe that the intention was only to guarantee paymwnts until the holidays. That's almost inhumane.

And adding that extra week to Tier II could push more people past the deadline, so that they would not qualify for further "augmentation" to their accounts, effectively denying them Tier III, if this is the way it will work.

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extending the window

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:44 pm

Here is a link to an article which clarifies the issue:

http://www.freep.com/article/20091104/NEWS06/91104076/1319/U.S.-Senate-approves-unemployment-extension

It seems that now they have to go back and change the date, so that those who have not or do not exhaust ALL of their benfits before the end of the year will qualify for further extensions. I hardly think this is possible before the holiday recess, but it seems they're gonna try.

Anyone have a bill number to simplify a search for the new legislation?

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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  connorsgp on Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:54 pm

I don't think the article in the Michigan paper is correct....see page 16 of the legislative thread and read nancym's post. I tend to think she is correct.

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??????????????

Post  tj21121008 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:31 pm

i just spoke to elect thad altman of brevard county and they said they called the awi leceslation dept and they told her fl was only funded for the max of 14 weeks and i just wrote a letter to our congressman bill posey these people are the ones we should be calling ..call congressman bill posey ..post if you find new info. and the reason they are going to take so long is because the are understaffed fl cant afford to hire anyone els ..can you believe that shit? lmao
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  bittybear on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:17 pm

connorsgp wrote:I don't think the article in the Michigan paper is correct....see page 16 of the legislative thread and read nancym's post. I tend to think she is correct.

Correct for those who have exhausted all of the Tiers of Emergency Benefits before the end of the year, whether or not you moved on to the Extended Benefits program, yes.

But for those whose last week claimable (is that a word?) falls after December 25th, the extra week added to Tier II will push you over the threshold. This is delineated in H.R. 3548, Section 3 "THIRD-TIER EMERGENCY UNEMPLOYMENT COMPENSATION", (b) "Conforming Amendment to Non-augementation Rule- Section 4007(b)(2) of the Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2008 (Public Law 110-252: 26 U.S.C. 3304 note)". The original legislation (H.R. 6867 of the 110th congress) had a phase-out of March 31, 2009, which was changed to December 31, 2009 by H.R. 1 (ARRA). It states:

"(2) NO AUGMENTATION AFTER MARCH 31, 2009", which was replaced with "DECEMBER 31, 2009".

Which means no further amounts (Tiers) will be credited to your account after December 31, 2009.

God, I hope I'm wrong. Can you imagine having your last week payable as December 25th? They add an extra week to Tier II, which makes your last week payable as January 2, 2010, which means you miss the deadline for augemtation for the additional Tier. MERRY CHRISTMAS...

I've left messages at 2 extensions from your AWI contacts, with no response as of yet.

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Post  tj21121008 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:31 pm

what is that suposed to mean???????
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  grandmom49 on Mon Nov 09, 2009 7:57 pm

If any of us are still unemployed when the new extension is proposed we should let our legislators know we would appreciate simpler language. I hope you all get the same kick out of reading this story that I did.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/66995-unemployment-numbers-prompt-push-for-more-jobless-benefits
I have a feeling that this bill will be proposed for the sole purpose of getting pet legislation added & passed.

BTW: Has anyone seen a copy of the DOL instructions yet or know when they intend to issue them?

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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  sc4ram on Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:27 pm

- I presume (those of us who have exhausted our EB claims) are simply in a holding pattern until we get a letter from AWI or a link suddenly appears on their site to apply for the latest EUC?
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hoping for calm

Post  nancym on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:47 pm

Wow, this is the most confusing thread I think we've ever had on this board; I'm seriously thinking of asking UIO to start a whole new EUC thread when the dust settles about these issues!

First, don't go by the press, especially that freep.com. The press usually tangles up the bill summaries til you don't even know what's what in a bill. Jim Stratton is an exception at the Orlando Sentinel, mainly because he checks with us and with NELP! Smile

Second, that other article for California is irrelevant to Florida and confuses even further because they are talking about "FedED" --California's EB, which they had to fight to get last spring just before Florida, and EB does not play into whether these EUC extensions do anything. If that guy is complaining about mainly about EB, I don't blame him!

Third, the only article I referenced is the press release by NELP. The orange "chart" I posted, is not a quote but my own analysis of the actual bills. Each Tier by the language of the bill is qualified for by exhausting the previous one. And to qualify for Tier 1 you have to exhaust regular benefits, just as you said, bittybear.

The language of the bill specifies that each Tier's amount is augmented at the time that the previous Tier is exhausted, "or at any time thereafter"--so no date needs to be changed for that Tier-to-Tier process. But the funding is cut off on May 31, so those people who started just before Dec 31 would never make it to the final use of legislated benefits unless Congress changes the cutoff and qualifying dates. But that does NOT imply that we have to use up all the weeks before Dec 31. And if anyone is concerned with qualifying for Tier 3, all you have to do is have a used up EUC Tier 2, that's all. The qualifying deadline is Dec 31--but not the payable dates deadline, that's the end of May.

The messy language that you see in these news articles and agency people talking is about them objecting to the cutoff of benefits for many who will be coming after the current long term unemployed, a group even larger than those this bill was intended to help. (Either that or in some cases it sounds like they just haven't read the bill!)

I stand by my "orange chart" that I posted above. But I did send it out directly to a contact at NELP to ask if they would confirm my plain language "workflow" for EUC. By that, bittybear, your two people will be fine. If I'm wrong AND if I get the job that I just had a third interview for, I'll buy both you and Gonzo (previously promised) a beer! But if I'm wrong, and I also don't get the job, I myself will be up the creek on Dec 31, but I don't think that will be the case.


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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  nancym on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:50 pm

sc4ram wrote:- I presume (those of us who have exhausted our EB claims) are simply in a holding pattern until we get a letter from AWI or a link suddenly appears on their site to apply for the latest EUC?

That's what I'm doing, scrram, that and checking every once in a while to see if they've posted new updates on their site about how long it will take.
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

Post  nancym on Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:55 pm

tj21121008 wrote:i just spoke to elect thad altman of brevard county and they said they called the awi leceslation dept and they told her fl was only funded for the max of 14 weeks and i just wrote a letter to our congressman bill posey these people are the ones we should be calling ..call congressman bill posey ..post if you find new info. and the reason they are going to take so long is because the are understaffed fl cant afford to hire anyone els ..can you believe that shit? lmao

It only makes sense that they would be funded for the 14 weeks at this point because the extra six weeks is not triggered on until the 8.5% TUR is established officially at the end of the 14 weeks.
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Re: General EUC Discussion - Ongoing

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